|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 6:46:52 GMT -5
A brief description of what this thread is for:
Anyone who feels that the little blurbs they receive for their promos is not enough to be able to help their writing, this is where you want to be. This thread is devoted to the development of characters, situations and writing styles.
The format is simple. After the promos have been posted, while we are waiting for the matches to be written, I will be posting critiques for promos that I believe are exemplary of either great writing or writing that needs improvement. I would encourage others to do the same.
After the critiques have been posted, we can discuss any questions or comments from the writers as a form of clarification on the points in the critiques. Hopefully, this will be able to help us hone our writing to be more entertaining and effective.
A few rules:
1) If you are offering your comments, make sure they are applicable to the discussion at hand, and that they offer worthwhile input.
2) This is not a thread for flaming others for their failures in their writing. We are here to help those whose writing needs it, and to commend them when they have done a good job.
3) Feel free to be colorful in the way you present your critique. Just make sure you stick to the points you are trying to make. For the purposes of this thread, there is nothing worse than an academic conversation that becomes pointless because of digression.
[ROMEO'S EDIT] 4) Also feel free to challenge, question, affirm or answer any of the critiques posted here, as well as different aspects of writing the promo (I'm looking at you, Craig). Debates are encouraged.
I endorsed this place as a way to help those who are lacking in skill to greatly improve, without resorting to creating a separate show that will categorize all rookies and pigeonhole them there, hoping that they'll improve as time goes by. The Feedback thread may also be used to give out feedback like before, but if you really want in-depth (think the Virtua Fighter series's Training Mode), put it here.
You know what, come to think of it, eventually we might have to merge the two places.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 7:00:39 GMT -5
Since this is the first iteration of the promos, I'm going yo critique everyone, just for sake of fairness.
Cain:
First off, I work at McDonalds, and if you can tell me what's in the secret sauce, I'll suck your dick. People think they know what it is, but they don’t. Alas, I digress. First off, I have to applaud your choice of narrative style. You wrote in an engaging manner, and I liked how you were able to tie up things at the end. In the beginning of the promo, when he was preoccupying himself with trying to remember the girl's name, I thought it was just fluff, and when I got to the bottom, I just kind of smiled to myself and thought "That glorious bastard."
Your introduction of the character of Andrew was seamless. At first when Cain was stressing over the fact that the door wasn't locked and there was someone at the door, I thought some shit was going down. It was a very good tension break, and as a character, I found Andrew extremely colorful.
As for Cain's character, I found that he was kind of lacking personality. We got a glimpse of some of the things that irk him, like the girl smoking, but we didn't really get to see much of his personality. Maybe that was deliberate, but it kind of disappointed me. But that's good in a way, because it left me asking himself what makes him tick. A very good attempt, and I look forward to seeing more about Cain Ravid.
Dunn:
The first section of your promo was artfully done, though at points, it became somewhat irritating to read. It seems like an internal monologue, which is fine enough, but in a few phrases you change tenses, which shouldn't happen, especially in an internal monologue. If you were verbalizing it, it would be okay, since when people talk, it is generally acceptable to switch tenses, but when they are thinking, they don’t think about the present in past tense.
I started reading your first section, and was thinking, "Well looks like another hooker is whore is going to get gacked." and I was a glad when you ended up just ignoring her. Because there is only so many times that one can read a promo where you kill a hooker, and that number is one.
Dunn's thoughts during the first section are very eloquent, and you even take pains to show that he does not, in fact think like an idiot. Yet in the second section, even your thoughts are plagued by a nonsensical stream of profanity, which runs completely counter to the image you give us of John's mental state.
As far as the second section goes, it was okay. you seem to have grown up watching Full Metal Jacket and attempted to emulate Gunnery Sgt. Hartman, albeit not successfully. I agree with the past diagnosis that you took the swearing a bit far, and should have been used more moderately, only on strength of the fact that you didn't write any intriguing in regard to John spewing obscenities.
Your depiction of Sam and Max was entertaining and I liked how you reacted to them in your head. However, as you continue to berate them verbally, it wears thin and takes away from the interaction. My suggestion is to streamline your cursing, in as much as creating streams of profanity that actually flow and make sense, rather than just throwing in a jumble of random swear words. If you are able to do that, you will be able to get away with a lot more of the swearing, because it wont be as distracting to read, especially if you attempt to couple it with some sort of comic element, like Hartman does. Instead of cock-wank-tit, or whatever the hell it was, you need to strive for "I-bet-the-best-part-of-you-ran-down-the-crack-of-your-mama's-ass-and-ended-up-as-a-brown-stain-on-the-mattress." or "You-are-nothing-more-than-grabastic-pieces-of-amphibian-shit." If you can accomplish this, we are sure to expect great things from you.
Colt:
To be completely honest, this promo didn't do much for me. While the first part was enjoyable enough, in the lighthearted manner, the second half was, in my opinion, not particularly strong. This probably stems form the fact that your promo lacked congruity. The first half was well done. You were able to slip in your humor and give a little bit of insight as to the character of Colt, in relation to those of his wife and manager. It was a very deft move in your writing, but you cock-slap us in the face with the second half when the momentum you built up in the first part is suddenly halted and you deliver us a dry manifesto, sparsely populated with a few ironies.
It gave me literary blue balls. You build up, and then you dont deliver anything of consequence. While you achieve your goal of giving the background your wrestler, you do it by dumping all the info at once. to me it seemed like you were just putting everything out there so that you could say "Now that we've got that part out of the way, let's continue." But that's the problem, you don't continue. You end your promo and you leave me sitting here with my cerebellum aching. Apart from that and a few minor SpaG errors, it was an enjoyable read.
RCA:
An interesting character. Your background seems kind of campy, completely changing your entire persona because a guy screwed him out of getting a girl. But then, my guy believes that he hails from a fictional land and rolls dice to make his decisions, so who am I to judge? I would have liked to have seen some of the development from that time to when he completed his transformation into The Radical, and I would hope that in further promos you might shed light on that era of his life.
The format of essentially writing stage directions worked well, and is a nice contrast from the rest of the promos. It gave it a distinct flavor and worked well. That being said, it might be beneficial to give a little more detail in the stage direction, just for the sake of being a little more descriptive. At this juncture you have a format of having one or two lines of direction, and then a rant. That was okay for this promo, but I fear that if you continue in this way, the format will become stale.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 7:01:51 GMT -5
13:
Whilst reading your promo, I found myself distracted by pretty much everything around me. To me, it just seemed like a dry monologue and it was difficult to focus my attention to it. I don’t mean to crap on your hard work, but it just didn't do anything for me. To me, while the subject matter was interesting enough, the way you wrote it just kind sucked the life out of the story for me. Were it not for the fact that I imagined if this monologue was ever spoken it would probably be in the voice of Ben Stein, I probably would have liked it a lot.
However, I do I commend you on your attempt to write in 1st person present tense, by far the most difficult way to write a narrative (even if at a point or to you revert back to past tense), but aside from that, it kind of fell short. I liked how you incorporated your back-story into your thoughts as you roam the halls, but in spite of that, it seemed dreadful dull.
You sense no emotional response at all to go along with the thoughts. That would be okay if somewhere in the promo, you explicitly showed that he did not carry emotion, but as far as I can tell, that was not the case. A tip for the future: Even if he is outwardly not trying to show emotion, if you are going to write from a 1st person perspective, show that he is actually making the attempt, even if it is only a line showing that you are battling the surfacing of your emotions. It gives a little flavor to a character that thus far has no real personality.
Now that I've reduced you to tears, I have to congratulate you on a good effort. Just work on developing your character's personality, and he will turn out to be a nice addition to the cast we have here.
Ribz:
Before anything else, I want to say that your formatting was the most irritating thing I have been subjected to in all my nineteen years. Writing all your text with a centered alignment really made me want to skip through reading your promo altogether, but I fought the urge. You're welcome.
Your style of writing is a little bit like RCA’s but executed better, in my opinion. You wrote it like a script, injecting with descriptions to set the scene, much like how in a script, the writer would describe the room in the beginning of the scene and the characters as they are introduced. It is very effective if conveying the setting, and still gives you room to tell the story with the character's dialogue.
Which brings me to another point. While I loved your use of vernacular for your character's speech, after a time it became a bit annoying to read through all the da's and ya's. That being said, I can still appreciate it because you are strictly sticking to a way that your character talks. My only real complaint is the use of 'z' in place of 's' at the end of your words. You did that with your name, which is fine enough, because it gives a sense of uniqueness. However, in the prose, it just makes it look like you are trying to hard.
Clodious:
When reading something that is fantasy in nature, one must suspend disbelief. That is easy enough to do, provided the author takes a single precaution. That is not to disrupt the way things work as a result of logical reasoning.
While I enjoyed the idea of your wrestler being sent from some kind of (fictional) medieval kingdom via portal to our modern world, this raises a few problems. Firstly, if it is a rite of passage for an heir to go through to another dimension (for want of a better term), and they have the ability to control the portal, then why are they still a medieval-esque society? Would they not have recovered pieces of technology and in effect become technologically driven? Why would Benedict need to wear armor in this case?
Further, there is no way someone would just let you waltz into the office of the GM of any kind of company. In addition, Christ would never just give someone a spot on his show. He's much too calculating and cynical for that.
Also, as a side note, if your character has grown up as a prince, then you need to make sure that he is speaking with the utmost best grammar (as well as the king), since they would be taught excessively about it, for sake of diplomacy.
Having finished my rant about plausibility, I will say that I really enjoyed reading your promo. While the above-mentioned was a little distracting, the situations you gave and the narrative was sufficiently intriguing to help look over it. A good effort.
Noisewater:
Your promo had a very nice flow to it. It was made up of a bunch of distinct parts, but they were all threaded along the same story, so you achieved a nice rhythm. I think that you pulled off the news report rather well, explaining the different aspects that aren't common knowledge for most people (i.e. jobbers). It had the same kind of condescension when a real reporter explains something. That was a very nice touch. You have a nice perspective in your promo, in as much as it is completely different from any of the others.
You have a very postmodern look in your promo, because of your ulterior motive of exposing all the aspects of professional wrestling. Whereas the other wrestlers attempt to use their promos to suspend disbelief, you go completely the opposite and try to shatter that disbelief to get to the little grain of truth that everyone can understand. It's a nice contrast, and I truly enjoyed looking through it.
I didn't see anything wrong with it, other than it just didn't seem like a very strong promo. You set out a goal and you accomplished it, but it cut off there. You don’t give any insight to the character of Magnum, since he is as much a character as Noisewater. As such, you may wish to think of actually making Magnum have a separate gimmick, seeing as he is kind of a completely separate entity from the reporter. Otherwise, the outward appearance is that Magnum is just a nondescript wrestler.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 8:28:41 GMT -5
Wylde:
Kudos to you. I truly enjoyed the dynamic between Wylde and his, I dont know what to call it. Alter-ego? Evil conscience? Imaginary friend? Either way, the dual outlook on Wylde's memories was an effective technique.
The use of your conversation with yourself is both a source of strength, as well as a flaw in your writing. While your speech is captivating, you may end up taking away from the scene around you. In this instance it was fine, because your entire scene was simply your debate with yourself. However, in the future it may pose as a problem if you have a tendency to make your wrestler rant. This is something we will just have to wait and see about.
There isn't too much else I can say about your writing style, because honestly, it didn't play much of a factor in this promo. you virtually forsake any action and essentially turned your promo into a monologue, interspersed with another, albeit more devious, monologue.
Courage:
To start with, your promo was so short that it was hard to get a feel for your character. However, you were able to convey a little bit about the history of your character, in as much as hitting the tree and believing that you are invincible.
As I read through it, I find myself wondering, who was doing the voice for Mighty Sock. If it was Courage, then he would know (within the microcosm of the promo), that he is not actually a superhero, that his basement is not made of diamonds, etc. That aside, it was entertaining, because you are essentially the same character archetype as mine, but having taken the road of comical dolt.
The references to the other superheroes makes me think that this guy probably worked at a comic shop as a kid. If I might make a suggestion, it might be a good idea to elude to other superheroes in subsequent promos. Not so much as stealing their lines, but perhaps emulating their mannerisms, or something of the like.
This was an enjoyable promo, but you need to work on fleshing out your character a little bit, especially since you had taken the road to give his back story. Now you need to breathe life into your character. Right now he is just a guy who thinks he's a superhero.
You need to think of little tweaks that make him complex (or even just give the illusion of complexity). Create an entire mythology for his character if you need to. Since your fledgling superhero is also a fledgling character, I think we can expect some amusing developments from him.
Exodus:
In all honesty, this promo made me want to kill myself. Truly. The dark, evil, pained atmosphere of the promo made me so depressed as to wish to take my own life. Good job.
The only real problem I had with it was the fact that it seemed long and draw out, like a history lesson, and I found myself wondering when it was going to end. I'm of the opinion that if you are going to create a complex character background, it should not be all dropped at the very beginning, and that is just for a regular, multifaceted character. With your promo, we're talking about eons of life and history and to me, it would seem more effective to space it out over subsequent promos.
At least that way, you might be able to fill in with some backstroke when you cant think of anything else to write. But alas, that ship has sailed. I cant really make an effective critique on this, because the main issue has just been addressed, I would urge you to try to tone down the drawn out prose.
On another note, I like the idea behind your character, and I think that through your narrative, you have really fleshed out your character well. The idea of him bringing another war to heaven and fighting God for the mantle of power in the universe is a spectacular goal, and reminds me of Rasitlin from the Dragonlance Chronicles.
Overall, a decent promo (and I'm probably going to catch some heat for not saying it was a lot better than I have). You obviously have put a lot of thought into your character and his background, but in my opinion, you need to spice up your prose a little bit (for instance, with more engaging dialogue).
Best:
If nothing else, Best is a lively character. Just the idea of a hooligan making his way into a wrestling federation is gold. While there is little narration in the promo, it is negligible to the feel of it. Your promo is action packed and driven by the dialog. The antics that actually are shown in the narration are entertaining at its least and mind-blowingly funny at its best.
I applaud the fact that you incorporate the other wrestler's into your promo, even though they dont have relevance to your match. You set the mood that the wrestling world is much stranger than you might have expected and it seems like its an underlying thought of "what did I get myself into?"
By far the most amusing part of your promo for me was "Lady luck is with me today!" This is probably because I am kind of an attention whore and it warms the cockles of my heart when one of my creations receives attention elsewhere.
Either way, the caricature of my character was well thought out , and to someone who had not read my promo, they would probably assume that this is how my wrestler would act based on my gimmick. These are the sort of wild distortions that make things humorous, and I give my endorsement of your skill.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 9:19:35 GMT -5
Fytor:
You have created a great gag character. As can be seen from the fact that you have already incorporated two villains into your story, it is obvious that you have put a lot of thought into the mythology of your character, which shows a lot of promise. You have created hte ability to make your hero seem epic, yet at the same time foolish, all for the antics of the situation.
The name of your first introduced villain is enough to show that you have an knack for comedy. there is just something about a villain with the name Pink Bunny Slipper Mistress that gives an air of absolute lunacy, which is a good thing.
You don't have any character development, but in this instance it doesn't matter because you've just thrown us into the midst of things. So we'll see what happens. Maybe we'll eventually find out who Fytor's secret identity is? Your characters are already well defined by their actions and displayed attitudes, which is a difficult feat. A job well done.
Anon Ehmus:
I don't know a word that can correctly describe the greatness of the promo (and scrumtrulescent is already taken, so I'm not going to make a new one). This promo had a kind of cloak and dagger feel to it. The intrigue of a secret agreement in a jail cell. The jail cell of an innocent man no less. Conceptually, it leaves me wanting more.
The narrative of it is in the same old style, just a paragraph of action and setting, but it works, just like as in Best's because your promo is focused on plot developments that arise form the dialogue. Your opening monologue had a great hook, and your closing monologue wrapped up your promo in an ominous way.
My only beef with you is the fact that there isn't more. I would love to know more about the circumstances of Anon's alleged crime. We apparently know what he is striving for in VCW, and the blackmail thread is a great touch. I cant wait to see what's in store for us form your character.
King:
A masterpiece, if I ever saw one. You were able to combine a sense of tragic past with ambitious future with a little mix of present apprehension. Deacon's morose attitude is beset by Sarina, and his own sense of humor. He strikes me as the sort of man who would fall into bouts of depression, so it seems very reasonable that he would turn to drugs. He's a very believable character, and he is well presented.
In the narration of the promo, namely the past, we get a feel for some unnamed ordeal that he went through. I love the irony that even though his already of whatever drug he abused, he is still very much a slave to it. His dynamic with Sarina give a break in the depression that is his mental situation, which is a nice change of pace. It proves that you can be serious, but still be able to turn out some humorous parts without forfeiting the integrity of your character. It was very well written, and the formatting was good. It was easy to read, and there was never a chance to mix up. I dont think I can find anything that was inherently bad with this promo.
Sick Fixx:
To start with, I like your gimmick. A reformed drug addict and born again Christian? It seems very extreme, yet at the same time, plausible. Unfortunately, the potential of your character seems to have been squandered when you format your promo just like a long manifesto.
If there is anything I truly hate in writing, it's info-dumping, which is precisely what you have done. You could have done so much more with this promo if you had even added just a little bit of action on your character's part, or added a supporting character to interact with.
I am a big proponent in the idea of show-don't-tell when it comes to literature. There is a little leeway regarding that, like if you are trying to give a setup by placing in information. But I think if may have been more effective if you were to have shown instances of Fixx's drug abuse. Show his rehabilitation. That is how you make a complex character. Otherwise, you character is nothing more than words on paper (or computer screen as the case may be).
That being said, I can appreciate your prodding of my character. It was very well done, especially since you are a face. It seems hard to try to think of a way to downsize your opponent when you have to be a good guy about it, and I have to admit that being sympathetic to him was a great way to go. It was a good effort, but could use a bit of improvement as far as the thoughy process and construction of the promo.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 10:18:26 GMT -5
Ares:
I love the idea of your narration being done by an actual narrator. Your character is comical without having to be a goof. In fact, he's the complete opposite. He's funny because he's an asshole. Which is decidedly hard to do, since a lot of the time, people end up just sounding like assholes, and not at all funny. However, you inclusion of your interaction with the narrator was priceless, especially with the narrator's mom in question.
I don't believe I need to say anything about the format, as it seemed pretty pristine to me. Although you didn't really give any kind of background for your wrestler, which kind of turned me off. You've essentially just thrown this guy into a role without any really reason why. That's okay for some gimmicks, but not when you make the huge effort of making your promo about getting ready for your first match.
The ego-maniac thing didn't really show up in your promo though. However, that may be a blessing in disguise, because it likely would have gotten old if it kept occurring. Whether or not it was a deliberate decision by you, or it just turned out that way, I think ti was probably for the best, although you may want to figure out a better way to emphasize your gimmick.
Ahriman:
Your misanthropic character is a man after my own heart. I liked how you verbally shit over the metaphor with such grace, even if I don't necessarily agree with your logic. However, altogether I did like the Forrest Gump allegory, especially since you used it as a way for the inner misanthrope to explain the shortcomings of the American individual.
Your promo was well written, and the formatting was perfect, but I didn't really get a feel for your character. To me he just seems like he didn't care about anything at all. His existence seems to just be a footnote on claims that you want to be able to say as an author, and it seems like your 'character' is only a vessel to spew said message. Given, the scene and action was written very well, and you use your monologue to be able to explain the things happening around you, but it seemed to me that the side characters, in there few paragraphs of stardom were afforded with detail than the star of the promo was.
In the future, I would suggest to focus a little more on Erich in an outward manner. We get no indication about what he is all about, except that he hates Forrest Gump and believes that people suck. Other than that, we see no motivation for him to do anything.
As an end note though, I have to say that I commend you on the clerks homage in your last sequence. Classic man.
Sam & Max:
The epitome of a back and forth dynamic. While lots of the people here have used it in some form or another, using ti when they need it, you have made it your staple. It takes a very special kind of person to be able to write one character with two distinct personalities, and so I know it must have taken a lot of thought to be able to breathe life into this abomination.
That being said, the introduction was a little bit dry to me. Your monologue was interesting, but the way it fit into the rest of the promo made me wonder exactly who ti was directed at. It wasn't internal, which is the usual for an opening monologue, and it wasn't really part of a conversation, because there were no other speaking parts.
For me, the introduction didn't really work, solely because it seemed awkward. We don't know from what medium the opening is, and to me it's kind of distracting. At any rate, once you got on your feet, it began to flow much better, and it was a nice dynamic the way you had your respective heads bickering. The way you were able to portray the difference of opinion to the same situation was nice and it seemed like because of which, you were able to give each brother their own gimmick.
Your introduction of Dunn to your promo was nice and I think that your portrayal of him was right on target, from what I gathered from his biography and his promo. It looks like you two had a good collaboration while working on your promo and the teamwork proved very useful, and in my opinion is a staple in a tag-team match. If nothing else, I think that the synergy that you created with your character and your tag team partner's should be a big factor when determining the result of the tag team match.
It was very well put together, and as I read, I had great appreciation for your humor. It wasn't blatant like a lot fo the other promos, and s it had a nice contrast and let it stand out in my mind. If this is an example of your writing, I can say that we will be seeing some very good things from you in the future.
Now that I have finally finished all the critiques for the first series of promos, let's up the discussion up. Who's up first?
|
|
RaTo
Developmental Talent
Posts: 40
|
Post by RaTo on Mar 1, 2008 17:47:28 GMT -5
First off, very good idea! The feedback given in the feedback thread is somethimes too thin to be usefull, so this in-dept analysis is very good!
Regardy my promo, I appoligize for the way I portraid your character. After reading your promo I realise how much more serious he is, as opposed to the goofy persona is thought you would give him.
Anyways, keep up the good work!
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 1, 2008 22:25:52 GMT -5
First off, very good idea! The feedback given in the feedback thread is somethimes too thin to be usefull, so this in-dept analysis is very good! Regardy my promo, I appoligize for the way I portraid your character. After reading your promo I realise how much more serious he is, as opposed to the goofy persona is thought you would give him. Anyways, keep up the good work! No apology necessary. You saw something, and you took a shot with it. Since your promo was driven mostly by comedy anyway, making a caricature was fitting. I'm of the opinion that certain artistic liberties should be allowed to be taken (provided they're kept reasonable) with the characters around yours. While IC, my character would likely be irked by such a representation, who said faces had to get along? Besides, it was originally my intention to represent my character in that way, but my portrayal of him in the serious manner was kind of a late development, when I realized that he actually had the potential to be serious. Also, in regard to the creaion of this thread, it was as much romeo's brainchild as anything, since he aparently had entertained the notion at an earlier juncture, but I think when I brougth it up as a possiblity, it kind of revitalized the idea in hsi mind. At least, I hope I can be afforded to that credit.
|
|
Austin
Lower Midcarder
Posts: 172
|
Post by Austin on Mar 2, 2008 0:02:13 GMT -5
I really appreciate the comments, but the guy and girl thing was one of the things, not the main thing. I'll delve into the creation of The Radical as the promos go on.
|
|
|
Post by Sam & Max on Mar 2, 2008 5:38:07 GMT -5
First off, I'd like to congratulate you on a very useful and interesting addition to the boards. I'll certainly be making use of it myself, though not for 1.1 as I've already given short comments to everyone, and I'd likely forget what I suggested and look like an imbecile for contradicting myself. ANYWAY. It would be rude not to do you the same courtesy, so here are some more detailed thoughts on the premier promo of VCW 1.1: Having read your signup post, I anticipated a comedy character, one who would reference the roleplaying and fantasy worlds at every opportunity in an attempt to mine comedy gold. That would seem to be the natural direction, which I'm glad you eschewed. I find that my promos featuring heavy setting of the scene are quite poorly received, so you made a wise choice by splicing in the dialogue between Feyd and his doctor while he travels about the town. And on that note, picking a mini-cliffhanger to end each passage of conversation on did a great job of retaining my interest and keeping the promo flowing. By far, the best thing about your work was the sadness permeating throughout. I am an enormous sucker for a tragic hero, and these horrible things which happen in Feyd's life through no fault of his own do a perfect job of having me empathise with him. Whether it was the nightmarish childhood, the incident onboard the USS Paladin which presumably caused him to break, or well-meaningly buying opium for his recovering addict of an opponent, each one added to a devastatingly tragic figure. And best of all, it was all understated. You didn't need to show Feyd being beaten by his father, nor Fixx discovering the gift and angrily confronting Feyd. Concerning the what happened on the ship, I hope you return to it. Based on what we've seen of Feyd so far, I imagine he saw some atrocity perpetrated by his fellow navymen, the horror of which caused him to snap. If you do go back to the USS Paladin, for goodness sake milk it. Give us a little bit of the incident each promo, perhaps letting us think that Feyd was indeed the villain at first before revealing his actions to somehow be just. If you haven't gathered from the textual fellatio, I'm an enormous fan of Feyd Brisbane, and therefore the very worst person to be giving you constructive criticism. What you've done so far is excellent, and I want to see more of it. Just make that blue which Feyd speaks in a little lighter; it's a pain to read on my monitor. Promo critique for Sam & Max I'll certainly agree with you that the introduction was clumsy. It was the quickest and dirtiest way to force-feed my reader a short biography of Sam & Max, hopefully getting across a little of their background and personalities before diving into the deep end of the proper promo. As for who it was directed to, the answer would be you, the reader. I have a healthy disrespect for the fourth wall, and you'll continue to see the narration talk directly to the reader for nothing more important than to make a cheap pun. Regarding the character design, (full credit to Mr. Christ for the inventive idea) every character needs someone to talk to at some points to convey their emotions and personality. Some have girlfriends, some have multiple personalities, some have tag partners, you have Feyd's doctor, and Captain Courage has... Mighty Sock. I think the challenge with this character will come from keeping both Sam and Max interesting while still maintaining their differences. I can't do balls-to-the-wall humour like Eric Ares or Fytor do so well, so I'm left with (hopefully) amusing character interactions. Oh, and typing 'humour' reminds me of another challenge, which wouldn't have come across just from reading my VCW 1.1 promo. I'm an Englishman portraying a Canadian, so I keep having to go back and spell words in the narrative incorrectly on purpose. I don't know if you pilot anyone over at FMW, (along with LPW, one of the main sources of people here) but Mr. Dunn and I have teamed extensively before, so we did discuss our creations before writing our promos. Neither Sam nor Max are really Action Jackson, so I suspect he'll be my go-to guy when action needs to be taken. So... yeah. The main issue you had was with my introduction, which I'll freely admit was a necessary evil which I wanted to get out of the way so the reader would know a little about Sam & Max before we commenced with the hijinks. Now that's out of the way, I'll be able to leap straight into my 1.2 promo.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 2, 2008 7:45:30 GMT -5
I appreciate the extended feedback regarding my promo, as well as your response to my feedback. In regard to Feyd, I think you will find that I shall return to the USS Paladin presently howver, I dont think that you quite know what the angle of it is, so, despite the spoiler of going back, I still have my secrets. I hope it will be a nice surprise to you. You will also find some comedy here, but not through the idiotic antics that my my signup may have signified. It goes without saying that much of the comedic element with stem from Feyd's lack of familiarity with the world around him (i.e. him thinking that the Hollywood Walk of Fame was actually a memorial to a royal line), as well as a few other things that shall be subsequently unveiled. If nothing else it will be an interesting ride and I hope you enjoy it. Now about your promo: While I agree that breaking the fourth wall for a few moments lets you get along with the story quicker, it may have been an interesting idea to have acted like he was a normal character, who for some reason was subject to strange glances and muttered comments, until a point where you would have revealed as a matter of course, that Sam and Max were siamese. However, that is said and done, and at the end of the day, the rest of your promo probably seemed even stronger in contrast with the unorthodox beginning. At any rate, the only beef with the way you did it was just that to me it seemed incongruous, but sicne we dont have to worry about that anymore, we might as well not kick the dead dog. (And I will take your suggestion and use a different color for Feyd to make it easier to read for you.)
|
|
|
Post by Mortus on Mar 2, 2008 18:33:06 GMT -5
Though I don't have time to give super mega feedback, I will be making use of this little slice of hell in future;
Essentially, I had absolutely no clue what I was going with in this promo; the inner thoughts just happened, and will now be included in my FMW character, Mortus. I liked the medium.
As for the swearing? Done in real life by myself; though not due to a forced vocabulary; more out of amazing amounts of LULZ to be had by myself when someone just doesn't know what to say in response.
Essentially, I picked a gimmick which I won't write my best in. I felt I had to do a little something different; as fun as doing Mortus over here as well would be, the fed does not need a master manipulating heel of Mortus' standards.
Expect the next few promos to be phasing the shit out, (gimmick, OOT language bombs, etc,) and phasing in the AWESOME. (New gimmick, MOAR AWESOME.)
I'll be keeping the WIN of the inner monologue differeing so much from the outer monologue; but the outer will change.
They would love you at FMW, I think.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 2, 2008 19:03:50 GMT -5
Kind of sad that your abandoning your gimmick, because I think with a little bit of effort, it could be really good. You already know my thoughts about the inner monologue, so I'm glad you'll be keeping it. So far as all the cursing, like I said, it could be done, you jsut have to be creative. However, it's likely not worth all the effort. Phasing that out mgith be a good idea. Just dont try to tweak your guy around too much, or else it'll be more difficult to find that winning combination.
|
|
Eric Scorpio
Developmental Talent
Protection; the Madcore Way...
Posts: 15
|
Post by Eric Scorpio on Mar 3, 2008 3:17:53 GMT -5
Great job on offering this type of feedback. Like RaTo said way earlier small feedbacks aren't always helpful for improvement, yet it is a pain staking time to analyze a promo properly and give accurate constructive criticism as well.
Great job and I hope this continues!
|
|
|
Post by Ro on Mar 3, 2008 6:32:30 GMT -5
Essentially, I picked a gimmick which I won't write my best in. It feels like you're saying VCW isn't worth your awesomeness
|
|
|
Post by Super 'Mella Bear on Mar 4, 2008 9:49:02 GMT -5
Muchos kudos for creating this, SFB! And I'm very appreciative of the feedback that you've given me. Makes me feel proud that it impacted you in the manner that it did.
I'm hoping to participate if time permits me.
|
|
|
Post by Craig Christ on Mar 4, 2008 10:06:06 GMT -5
I was just wondering what SFB stands for. I was like "What? He got a nickname too?" but couldn't for the life of me think of a flavor that fit.
No-one probably knows that I'm talking about... Lol.
|
|
|
Post by Mike Forrest on Mar 4, 2008 10:10:43 GMT -5
sir feyd brisbane
|
|
|
Post by Craig Christ on Mar 4, 2008 10:31:38 GMT -5
LOL, I know what it stands for. I was just confused at first because Hostyle used the name.
|
|
|
Post by Mike Forrest on Mar 4, 2008 10:48:34 GMT -5
super frappuccino bear?
|
|
cc
Developmental Talent
Posts: 37
|
Post by cc on Mar 4, 2008 11:15:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the in depth feedback dude.
|
|
Exodus
Lower Midcarder
A mystery wrapped within an enigma
Posts: 112
|
Post by Exodus on Mar 4, 2008 12:43:16 GMT -5
In all honesty, this promo made me want to kill myself. Truly. The dark, evil, pained atmosphere of the promo made me so depressed as to wish to take my own life. Good job. Greatest feedback I have received so far. My entire plan with my character, the one thing I am working towards, is to make you feel bad for him and thus feel bad about feeling bad for him. Exodus lost his entire world simply because he was seeking knowledge, something we all do in our lives. It's a tragic story that I hope will connect with the audience well. As for the common complaint, the overflow of information; I really thought hard about that. My basic justification for it is that I wanted to work towards the fall early because everything else will build on that moment, the revelation of how God came to power and how Exodus came to Earth. One line I forgot to add that and meant to add may relate strongly to this is the fact Exodus landed in 100 CE, over 1,900 years ago. I personally feels like I have plenty of time to develop the character and his relations to mankind that have led him to this spot. The final issue that seems to come up from my writing is the idea that this God-like figure is wrestling of all places. Well, I really want to say on this is that I've given that plenty of thought and I promise all will be revealed as time passes. I don't want to blow the Master's motives for Exodus completely right now but I promise it will not disappoint. I promise feedback to everyone once I get some more experience under my belt in this system, it is still very new to me and I want to see some promos past explanatory works before I feel comfortable enough to critique the work of others.
|
|
|
Post by Mortus on Mar 5, 2008 11:49:05 GMT -5
Essentially, I picked a gimmick which I won't write my best in. It feels like you're saying VCW isn't worth your awesomeness If you want Mortus, I can give you Mortus, but I was going for something a little more.... Well, I was hoping I'd come up with a character that other people could write segments for. I just need to rethink things and find a niche; don't you worry.
|
|
|
Post by Mortus on Mar 5, 2008 17:33:54 GMT -5
Think I may have found it; Some indepth shit would be lovely (and returned) on this one; preferably before the deadline so I can make use of it, maybe?
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 19, 2008 5:30:55 GMT -5
Alrighty, as I have promised, here are my two critiques for 1.2. I want to make it clear that the comments regarding these promos are not solely for the use of those who wrote them. I cannot stress how much a person can learn from looking at another person's writing, and even by paying attention to ideas that come up in conversation about writing. So I would urge you all to take special note of the critique3s, the good and the bad.
Today, I have opted to write critiques for Ciaran Kennedy and Mr Thomas Hookton. I hope that you will all be able to take something from both of these examples I have laid forth.
Ciaran Kennedy
I don’t know whether or not this was a time constraint thing, a lack of idea thing, or what, but this kind of writing needs some work. You essentially made a less extreme version of what Sick Fixx did in 1.1. You kind of created a manifesto, but it seemed like you were just spending time trash talking. You threw yourself into the world without explaining any regard about your involvement in wrestling or even any background of your own wrestler. This is less a promo and more just a trash talk rant, and didn’t really offer any insight to your character at all. You didn’t start to create a story for him and he seems to just be a generic wrestler for the time being.
It was awfully short, which is not a terrible thing in itself. Even my opponent in 1.2 had a much shorter promo than mine, but it was still well put together and was able to start creating more of a story for his wrestler. The problem with the brevity of your promo is that within what you did write, you didn’t seem to have anything to say. You seemed to focus on match relevance and little else. You should really spend some time thinking about what you want out of your wrestler, what you want for him, and what plot lines you want to create for him. Until you have at least the smallest notion of what your wrestler is all about, your promos will be lacking.
However, I will say that at this point, your character is a blank slate. On the strength of this promo, you all but certainly lost your match, and in a way, that is a blessing. Now you will be able to expend some time fleshing out your character into a form that will provide for more interesting promos. This is a major positive point, in that you can take a look at other people’s wrestlers and try to create a personality for yours that would mesh well with the others, and offer something unique. So, while it is initially a disappointing promo, your wrestler does have potential nonetheless.
Now that I’m done verbally assaulting your promo, welcome to VCW.
Mr. Thomas Hookton
This was my favorite promo of the bunch (my own included). You took a character that was the complete antithesis of the average wrestler, a man who comes not for the glory or the bragging rights, but just because it’s a hard days work and he’s trying to earn a living. Your promo was written very well and I liked your breaks between the different sections. You were very detailed in your background and I think that will end up being helpful for you in the future, since you have a very solid back story to relate back to if need be.
While I liked it for the style of writing and the content, I do have to admit that there was a little bit of an X factor in your promo. All the different aspects of your promo were very good, in my opinion, and it seems that in this case, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Your style of writing and the topic of your promo worked well together and created a synergy. You have created a sympathetic character, in that we feel sorry for his hardship, yet at the same time you have also made him a very noble man, in as much as he is just trying to carve out his little niche, and even though different factors around him are pushing him down, he’ll keep on trying.
It was a great effort and I think it will pay off in the future. At its very least, it was an excellent introduction promo, and at best, even as just an introductory promo, it would be able to hold its own against other promos where we have already been able to start revealing more back story and plot lines. My only beef with the direction of the promo is that I fear that you may not be able to incorporate much back-story into subsequent promos, only because the life of the average working man is not terribly interesting. However, I have confidence that you will figure something out.
If anyone wants me to speak with the about their promos specifically, send me a message witht he forum PM system, or drop me a line at my email dprim29@hotmail.com
You can also find me as evilpenguindavid on AIM.
As a side note to Dunne, I want to make it clear that I do not encourage using this thread to give critiques before promoing is over, simply for the fact that it is devoted to helping everyone out and we cant possibly help everyone who might want help before the deadline. It gives an unfair advantage to those who are helped, and I would like to keep that out of this thread for sake of fairness.
|
|
Mr. Thomas Hookton
Lower Midcarder
If Heaven Rides Against Us, Then Gods Be Damned
Posts: 117
|
Post by Mr. Thomas Hookton on Mar 19, 2008 8:27:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the critique Feyd, it means a lot. I was worried too that the life of the worker may become a little mundane, but I have some tricks up my sleeve which should make some things interesting. The outline for my next promo is already in the works (story of Hookton at least) and since I fancy myself a writer outside the walls of E-Fedding I like to buckle down and really push stories.
That being said, yes it was an intro promo and I've got a lot of planning left to do with where to go with Hookton. Hoping a fued besides my general beef with Craig Christ and management rises up, though I can make due without it for awhile.
I'm glad people are taking a liking to Hookton and that I don't need to be a hero (no offense) or the messiah to be a face. Hookton is also a good break from being an villainous as possible with Harlequin over at FMW. Mind you he is a funny villian, but still.
So roundabout way of saying, but thank you a lot for the feedback.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 28, 2008 7:54:12 GMT -5
You're welcome for the feedback, Hookton. Thanks for writing it, it was an entertaining read.
As a note to everyone, I would encourage you guys to post critiques for each other as well, that way we can have more discussion. I would like to be able to keep this thread alive during downtimes. Also, if any of you have questions regarding writing technique or the like, post it. Sometimes it helps to have views from other people.
|
|
|
Post by Ciaran Kennedy on Mar 28, 2008 9:04:22 GMT -5
Thank you very much for the feedback. It has helped me think up alot of things to move forward with.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Mar 28, 2008 9:09:09 GMT -5
Just trying to help. And I hope you didn't think I was just flaming you. If you want help for thinking up soem stuff for him, just drop me a line and I'll see what I can do to help.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Feyd Brisbane on Apr 8, 2008 11:18:02 GMT -5
Seeing as in the coming weeks I will be having my plate a bit full, I would like to know if someone else would want to do the critiques for the next show.
|
|